Dancer

A Look Back at 2022

Happy birthday and thank you for joining me as Why I’ll Never Make It turns 5 years old today! It was on December 28, 2017 that this theater podcast began from very humble beginnings and has slowly gained attention and even some accolades in the past five years of talking with actors and creative professionals.
There’s a certain kind of magic in the art of theatre, as the Tony award-winning actor Brian Stokes Mitchell once said, ”It has the power to transform an audience, an individual, or en masse, to transform them and give them an epiphanic experience that changes their life, opens their hearts and their minds and the way they think.” The same can be said of podcasting as well.
Why I’ll Never Make It strives to engage and enlighten with every episode as I have insightful and meaningful conversations with artists who truly share from the heart about their own experiences and challenges in this industry. And in this anniversary episode I’ll be sharing some of those former guests of the past year as well as provide an overview for what this podcast has accomplished in 2022.
Please consider a monthly subscription to bonus episodes OR a one-time donation, which will help offset the cost of producing this podcast. Whichever way you choose to contribute, your support is so very much appreciated!
 
Guests mentioned and featured in this retrospective episode...
Matt Vinson and Matte O'Brien - writers of Anne of Green Gables
Kate Baldwin - Tony-nominated actress
Barton Cowperthwaite - dancer and actor on stage and screen
Elizabeth Swain - acting teacher and Broadway actress
Steven Warner - former child actor and professional ice skater
Brian Patacca - podcaster and life coach for actors
Briana Packen - actress and movement coach
Al Blackstone - Emmy-winning director and choreographer
Judy Tenuta - award-winning comedian
Muriel Miguel - Artistic Director of Native American Spiderwoman Theater Company
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Why I’ll Never Make It is a Top 25 Theater Podcast hosted by Patrick Oliver Jones and is a production of WINMI Media, LLC.  It is also a part of Helium Radio Network and a member of the Broadway Makers Alliance. 
Background music in the episode is by John Bartmann and Blue Dot Sessions and used under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License.
 

Ricky Schroeder and Why Booking a Show Doesn’t Always Mean You’ve Booked the Show

The life of an actor is often a cross between a seesaw and a rollercoaster. Sometimes it’s as simple as an up or down choice between opportunities and trying to find the balance in our life and work. While other times we’re just along for the ride (especially when it comes to auditions and callbacks), going in ways we can’t control and just doing our best to make the best choices in the moment. And today’s guest reminds us how unpredictable that rollercoaster be and that finding balance can oftentimes be difficult. 
Ricky Schroeder has been dancing since he was 3 years old and has gone on to do a variety of projects from musicals like Kinky Boots and Hairspray Live to television shows including The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and Pose. Now, his name may sound similar to another actor from Silver Spoons and NYPD Blue, but on Twitter he’s quick to point out he’s not that Ricky Schroder. In fact, he’s been working to make his mark as more than just a dancer but rather an all around performer in the areas of acting, singing, and even improv. So this conversation with Ricky will be slightly different from other episodes as it highlights a journey common to all actors, one of hopeful expectation as well disappointing missed opportunities. 
The shows we discuss in this episode: 
Kinky Boots
Once Upon a One More Time (Britney Spears musical)
Muriel’s Wedding (musical)
The Last O.G. (starring Tracy Morgan)
POSE (starring Billy Porter)
Younger (starring Sutton Foster)
Broadway 4D
Bye Bye Birdie Live
The Last Five Years - available to monthly supporters...become one today :)
 
Learn more about WINMI Podcast at whyillnevermakeit.com 
Please consider a monthly subscription to WINMI and get Bonus Episodes as well OR if you'd rather, you can make a one-time donation to help offset the production costs of this podcast. Whichever way you choose, your support is so very much appreciated!
 
 
Career Transition for Dancers
Ricky spoke about expanding his own artistic work and efforts beyond dancing because of his love of acting and singing and wanting to be seen as more than just a dancer. While this rings true of many dancers looking to open up more creative and career opportunities for themselves, some are looking beyond dance for other reasons. That’s where Career Transition for Dancers (and the Entertainment Community Fund) steps in. 
Maybe you're a professional dancer dealing with a career-threatening injury or illness and aren't sure what to do next.
Perhaps you feel burnt out in your dance career, wondering if there’s anything else you could do for work.
You're possibly thinking of starting a family or are simply looking for more financial stability but don’t know where to start.
Whatever your situation, the Career Transition For Dancers program offers career counseling, educational scholarships and panel discussions to assist you in navigating these choices and expanding new opportunities for your next chapter. 
 
 
Final Five with Ricky Schroeder 
After this main conversation, Ricky sat down to answer the five final questions. Among several topics, he shares why "making it" is an elusive concept and how social media can put undue pressure on some performers. Read it all on the WINMI Blog.
Follow Ricky: Twitter | Instagram | Website
 

Audition Stories 2022 with Jerry Mitchell, Carmen Cusack, Barton Cowperthwaite, Kathryn Allison & More

As much as we actors wish it wasn’t so, auditioning really is our job. Performing it’s just an added perk, if we do that job really well. That being said though, there are times when we mail an audition and simply couldn’t have done any better, yet we still don’t book the part. Such is the life and labor of an actor.
Welcome to the annual episode of Audition Stories…the good, the bad, and the hysterical. And today you’ll be getting a sampling of the bonus episodes available to monthly supporters of this podcast. You’ll hear from the following actors, directors, and choreographers as they share their most memorable auditions:
Barton Cowperthwaite - actor and dancer from Tiny Pretty Things
Misty Rosas - actress, singer and performance artist from The Mandalorian
Carmen Cusack - actress and singer from Bright Star and Flying Over Sunset
Jerry Mitchell - director and choreographer of Kinky Boots and Pretty Woman
Al Blackstone - director and choreographer from So You Think You Can Dance
Michael Learned - famed actress from The Waltons
Kathryn Allison - actress and singer from Company and Aladdin
Briana Packen - actress and coach from Movement 4 Everybody
The Prom Tony Nominees - Caitlin Kinnunen, Beth Leavel, and
Brooks Ashmanskas
 
I love sharing these stories and episodes, but it does take time and resources to do it. Currently, about 90% of podcast production costs come out of my own pocket. So I would greatly appreciate if you would consider joining Why I’ll Never Make It and support the ongoing efforts of this podcast:
monthly subscriptions with access to bonus episodes and more
yearly subscriptions at a $20 discount off the monthly options
one-time donations to help the ongoing production of this podcast
Learn more about WINMI Podcast at whyillnevermakeit.com 
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Why I’ll Never Make It is hosted by Off-Broadway actor and singer Patrick Oliver Jones and is a production of WINMI Media, LLC. It's an award winning Top 25 Theater Podcast on Feedspot and is also a part of Helium Radio Network and a member of the Broadway Makers Alliance. 
Follow WINMI: Website | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube
 

Barton Cowperthwaite from Tiny Pretty Things Discovers He’s More Than Just a Dancer

When it comes to “making it” as a performer onstage or on screen, it’s usually as an actor, singer, or dancer.  Most people tend to gravitate toward the one(s) they’re most comfortable with and can truly express their artistry. Barton Cowperthwaite is a dancer first and foremost, with performances ranging from the opera La Traviata to Travis Wall’s Shaping Sound dance tour. The esteemed choreographer Lar Lubovitch describes Barton as a “movement poet” and credits him with having what he calls musical visualization. “Rather than hearing the music, this kind of dancer has the impression of being the music.”
But Barton has also been singing the music as well in productions at City Center Encores and in the national tour of American in Paris. He’s also been exercising his acting chops in a few movies and of course in his breakout role of Oren in the Netflix series Tiny Pretty Things. Through all of it, Barton has proven he’s much more than just a good mover and a pretty face.
In this conversation, he shares both the joys and disappointments of working on a hit TV show that ended up being canceled, he opens up about realizing his own weaknesses as a performer and needing to constantly work at improving his abilities, and he talks about the time he went on for the lead role in An American in Paris with just 15 minutes notice. 
Learn more about WINMI Podcast at whyillnevermakeit.com 
Subscribe to WINMI and get access to Bonus Episodes on Supercast 
Donate to the production efforts in making this podcast
Follow Why I’ll Never Make It on Instagram or Twitter 
Get a free copy of WINMI’s collection of Creative Wisdom 
 
Ljósið (The Light) from Cylan Shaffer
Before there was American in Paris, before Tiny Pretty Things, Barton was cast as the lead dancer in a wordless and moving piece from filmmaker Cylan Shaffer. It tells the story of a man who desires to overcome the restraint of his fears and then embarks on a journey towards discovery. Ljósið is an extraordinary performance piece of stunning emotion as two dancers (including Brandon Coleman) explore the boundaries of loss, love, denial, and acceptance. Watch it here.
 
 
Tiny Pretty Things Explores Sexuality on Netflix
Fans of this show were ravenous in their love and affection for these characters. One such fan created a compilation video which highlights one of Barton's more vulnerable and intimate storylines in the show -- his character's relationship with Shane (Brennan Clost). Watch it here.
 
 
Final Five with Barton Cowperthwaite
After our conversation on the joys of dancing and the struggles of being seen as more than just a dancer, Barton answers five final questions on the inspirations and advice he's received throughout his time onstage and onscreen. You'll find his answers and more on the WINMI Blog.
Follow Barton: Website | Instagram | IMDb
Follow WINMI: Website | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube 

Jerry Mitchell Knows His Worth as Director & Choreographer Despite 6 Losses at the Tony Awards

June is always a busy time for New York City with two major events taking place: one is of course the month-long Gay Pride celebration and the other is the biggest day of the Broadway season -- the Tony Awards. And today’s guest ticks off both of those boxes.
Jerry Mitchell is a prolific Broadway Director and choreographer as well as a gay advocate with shows like Broadway Bares and Kinky Boots, just to name a few. He is also an eight-time Tony nominee, but he is quick to point out that he’s lost out on the award six times. In our conversation, he discusses his creative career, full of fascinating anecdotes, and shares the importance of knowing our worth as artists, loving what we do on and off stage, and the value in saying "yes."
Subscribe to WINMI and get bonus episodes with Jerry on Supercast
Check out the podcast website and follow WINMI on Instagram or Twitter
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Why I’ll Never Make It is a top 25 theater podcast hosted by Off-Broadway actor and singer Patrick Oliver Jones and is a production of WINMI Media, LLC. It is a part of Helium Radio Network and a member of the Broadway Makers Alliance. 
Background music in this episode is by John Bartmann (Public Domain) and Blue Dot Sessions (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License).
 
Everybody Say Yeah!
You've heard what Jerry has to say about Kinky Boots. Now listen as the musical force behind this Tony-winning show is interviewed by ABC News in Australia. Cyndi Lauper has been a source of celebration and inspiration for music lovers since the 1980s. Then she turned her talents to theater, writing the music for this international smash hit.
 
This Month's Artist Spotlight: Broadway Bares
Broadway Bares’ 30th anniversary celebration, originally set for June 21, 2020, was postponed because of the COVID-19 pandemic. The in-person event is set to return this month and will more bodacious dancers, fierce queens, and sexy starlets.
Broadway Bares was created in 1992 by Mitchell, then a Broadway dancer, as a way to raise awareness and money for those living with HIV/AIDS. In Broadway Bares‘ first year, Mitchell and six of his friends danced on a New York City bar and raised $8,000. Since then, Broadway Bares has raised more than $21 million for Broadway Cares.
“Every dollar donated during Broadway Bares helps those across the country affected by HIV/AIDS, COVID-19 and other critical illnesses receive healthy meals, lifesaving medication and more,” Broadway Cares Executive Director Tom Viola said, referring to last year's online presentation. “As we look toward better and brighter days ahead for everyone, I’m so glad that everyone chose to twerk from home with us.”
 
Final Five with Jerry Mitchell
Nine years ago, Jerry Mitchell received the Abbott Award, a lifetime achievement award from the Stage Directors and Choreographers Foundation. The award is named in honor of renowned director George Abbott and is presented to a director or choreographer in recognition of lifetime achievement. That same year he was also nominated for two Tony Awards for choreography and direction in Kinky Boots. Since then he has lived another lifetime of experiences and shows like On Your Feet, Becoming Nancy, Pretty Woman, and the many subsequent incarnations of Kinky Boots. Read more insights and experiences from Mitchell on the WINMI Blog.
Follow Jerry - IBDB | Instagram 
 

Black History Month - Vinnette Justine Carroll and Alvin Ailey (Encore)

In honor of Black History Month, this episode is an encore presentation of two pioneering Black artists and the legacy they left in the performing arts.
 
Vinnette Justine Carroll, PhD - Actress, Playwright, Director, Teacher
Vinnette Justine Carroll’s professionalism in theatrical arts paved way for black professionals in the industry. She was an actress and playwright who expressed herself through gospel music. In a 1979 interview, Carroll told The Times, “I decided my salvation was to create something for myself, a theater for myself and others where your main worry wasn’t getting a TV series. When I first heard gospel -- I’d grown up in the Anglican church -- I just flipped. You mean religion can be like this?”
She was the first black female to direct on Broadway as well as receive a Tony nomination for direction in Don't Bother Me, I Can't Cope, a gospel-infused musical revue. The show was conceived by Carroll and Micki Grant supplied the music and lyrics. It was nominated for four Tony Awards. Four years later, she was reunited with Grant, along with Alex Bradford, in the production of Your Arms Too Short to Box with God, which earned them three more Tony nominations. 
Perhaps nothing sums up Carroll’s indomitable spirit better than her own words. In a 1967 interview with the Los Angeles Times, Carroll shared part of her experience as an artist, saying: “I have had a great deal of hurt in the theater both as a Negro and as a woman, but I don’t get immobilized by it.”
Learn more about Carroll's life and arts career - https://iforcolor.org/vinnette-carroll/
Don't Bother Me, I Can't Cope - https://www.theatermania.com/new-york-city-theater/reviews/dont-bother-me-i-cant-cope_85983.html
Vinnette Carroll Repertory Company - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnTRHStO8ho
 
 
 
Alvin Ailey - Dancer, Choreographer, Artistic Director
When it comes to the performing arts and certainly to dance, there are few people more worthy of admiration, of inspiration and imitation than Alvin Ailey. He was both uniquely gifted and qualified to tell the African-American experience which he lived and saw and reacted to through the art of dance. 
One of my most treasured experiences and memories of being here in New York City is getting to watch the Alvin Ailey American dance concerts each winter and summer. They consist of powerful and moving performances by amazingly talented dancers. And so it was only natural that my thoughts would go to the stories and emotions told through the pieces that Alvin Ailey choreographed himself, namely his iconic Revelations, which was inspired by his involvement within the Southern Black church. In fact, all of his work came forth from the people and places and experiences of his life. 
 
Learn more about Alvin Ailey, Judith Jamison, Robert Battle, and Lester Horton 
Watch Ailey's masterpieces: Cry, Masekela Langage, and Revelations 
Videos and interviews used in the making of this Alvin Ailey tribute:
Alvin Ailey American Dance Theatre at 50 A Golden Anniversary Celebration 
Big Lives: Profiles of LGBT African Americans - Alvin Ailey 
Alvin Ailey Celebrates 50th - CBS
Judith Jamison: Early Days with Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater
Alvin Ailey and the Importance of the Arts - The New Yorker
Alvin Ailey connects cultures through dance
Alvin Ailey speaking at UCLA  - 3/9/1983
Revelations from a lifetime of dance - TEDtalk 
 
 
Show Your Support
Please consider a one-time donation (via PayPal) or a monthly subscription to bonus episodes (via Supercast) to support the ongoing work and mission of Why I’ll Never Make It. Whichever way you choose to contribute, your help is so very much appreciated!
 
 

Al Blackstone On Knowing Yourself as an Artist & Not Waiting for Permission to Create

The act of creating is both a testament to and a full embodiment of its creator. An actor gives so much of themselves to the role that they’re playing. A dancer utilizes every muscle to express an emotion. A writer pulls from their own life and experiences to create other worlds and powerful stories. And so it is only natural that we often tie our own self-worth and meaning to the success or failure of that creation. 
Today, I’m talking with Emmy-winning director/choreographer Al Blackstone, who I had the pleasure of working with a few years back. He brings us three stories of doubt and uncertainty and aloneness, when his own talent as a dancer was questioned and his value as a director was dismissed. This is an honest conversation on who we really are beyond the labels of actor or artist and how the idea of “making it” comes more from ourselves than from the acceptance or validation of others. 
Podcast hosted by Patrick Oliver Jones(Off-Broadway actor and singer)
 
Listen to This Week's Audition Story
In addition to the three main stories, there are bonus episodes where guests like Al share memorable audition stories as well. Al talks about when he was at a dancer call years ago for the revival national tour of Sweet Charity. It's a story that any non-dancer (like myself) can definitely relate to. And these bonus episodes are only available to monthly supporters of Why I’ll Never Make It. Producing this podcast isn’t cheap, and with your help I can reach a wider audience with things like more video and transcription options, which would greatly benefit deaf and hard of hearing artists, for example.
So please consider a one-time donation (via PayPal) or a monthly subscription to bonus episodes (via Supercast), which will help offset podcast production costs. Whichever way you choose to contribute, your help is so very much appreciated!
 
 
Freddie Falls in Love
Al also shares a fourth story about a show he actually created called Freddie Falls in Love. In 2019, this dance narrative production was presented at the famous Joyce Theater in New York City, marking a personal and professional highlight in Al's career. However, the NY Times had a very different opinion about his show, calling it a "frothy" and "meandering production" among other things. Al admits that he hasn’t really spoken publicly about this review and how much it devastated him. But in a special conversation he opens up what this review did to him, offering heartfelt candor and insight into how he handled such public rejection. To access this bonus episode (and more) go to support.winmipodcast.com.
 
 
This Week's Artist Spotlight: MOMEN NYC
Born out the pandemic to meet the needs of dancers, who just needed the time and space to move again. Al co-founded MOMEN NYC as a way to bring adult dancers together so they could focus on their craft and make lasting connections with other dancers. He truly believes deeply in the power of dance, community, and kindness to express what is more true about ourselves and help bring us all closer together. Follow MOMEN on Instagram for the latest updates.
 
 
The Final Five
For the past few seasons, the Final Five has been a bonus episode to this podcast, but for Season 6 it’s in the form of a blog post where guests answer the five final questions. You can find Al's Final Five on the WINMI Blog.
Follow Al - YouTube / Instagram / Website 
Follow WINMI - Instagram / Twitter 
 
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Why I’ll Never Make It is a Top 25 Theater Podcast hosted by Patrick Oliver Jones and is a production of WINMI Media, LLC.  It is also a part of Helium Radio Network and a member of the Broadway Makers Alliance. 
Background music in the episode is by Blue Dot Sessions and used under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License.

Alessandra Mai Vinh - Talented Dancer and Actress Navigates American Immigration as She Pursues Her Dreams

Every year more and more artists come to this country and face the challenges of the language and the culture as well as the nuances of auditioning and performing in America. 
Sign up for the monthly WINMI Newsletter. 
Born in Italy with a Vietnamese background, Alessandra Mai Vinh began dancing at the age of 13. In Italy, she became known for working on national TV shows, commercials, and tours, as well as choreographing and dancing for several popular artists. In 2012, on a mission to pursue her dreams, she decided to move to New York City, where she attended Broadway Dance Center. Years later she moved to her current home in Los Angeles.
In this episode, she talks about the unique obstacles of immigrating to the US as a performer, and she shares her thoughts on greater representation for Asians on stage and on screen. But we also get into the challenges common among all performers -- the self-doubts and judgments that can come from comparing our accomplishments to others.
Watch Alessandra answer the Final Five questions - https://youtu.be/G0Vc1xw5IkE
Follow Alessandra - Instagram 
Support WINMI and get access to Members-Only Episodes on Supercast.
Check out Artist Resources and follow WINMI on Instagram or Twitter.
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Why I’ll Never Make It is a Top 25 Theater Podcast on Feedspot, and is also a part of Helium Radio Network and a member of the Broadway Makers Alliance. 
Music in the episode by Kai Engel is used under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License.